St. Anthony Test Site

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Committee Correspondence and Notes


The purpose of this page is to be a depository for correspondence as committee members make contacts during the planning process.  In addition, this page contains a section on follow-up actions that may be required from contacts.


Editor note: It may be best to create a table with these entries for better viewing?


Correspondence:


1. Laclede Electric in Lebanon, MO.  Sam talked with Pam in Engineering and Operations.  Asked about any easement restrictions along the power line.  There is no problem putting in a road along the easement.


2. Brad Copeland, Jefferson City Diocese. Bev. called Brad. He said the best way for us to get started with determining costs would be to hire an architect/engineer. He indicated that Keith Miller up in Columbia does much work of this type in the Diocese and has done some Eldon projects. He does good drawings, and Brad thought he would be very good at this, though he's not sure he's designed a cemetery before. He said he could contact Miller and find out if he could help us. 


He mentioned that if we decide it's doable, we would need some very good drawings and so forth to start any capital campaign that might be needed, and that an architect would be a better starting point than a Landscape designer.


This is not to say that we must use Mr. Miller. We don't even know that he's available. I just wanted to touch base with Brad Copeland and get his thoughts so that we can move forward on getting something done.


3. Bev contacted Brad Copeland asking for the name of the person he mentioned during a previous contact. Brad replied back with the name Brian Connell with Connell Architecture who will be calling Fr. Dan to set up a time for a meeting. The civil engineer is Chris Sanders. He is a parishioner at Our Lady of Lourdes in Columbia. He is with The Civil Group firm. Chris is familiar with cemetery designs.


4. Sam contacted John Brockmeier (relative of Brian Schuster), Eldon Public Works Director at 573-392-3425 about the Eldon city cemetery. John said that each burial site is 5x10 ft. There are 8 sites to a lot; 2 rows of 4 sites. There is a space, creating an alley, between every 8 sites so digging equipment can access. They charge $400 to open a site, + $100 on weekends/holidays, +200 if they run into rock.


5. Bill talked with the former state forester for USDA, NRCS and he said he will be happy to come down and assess the trees on our cemetery site.  Will contact him again to set up the time. Hopefully many of you will be able to meet with him and hear what he says about the timber stand.


6. Sam called Camden County Planning and Zoning to verify the following that Jack Martin wrote:


a. “Unified Land Use Code” (camdenmo.org)

b. R1 included residential and church.

c. Must have 5 acres.

d. Conditional use permit.

e. Since the property is within the Camdenton City limits, need to work with City Hall (346-3600).


It turns out that the above information only applies to the parcel containing the Church, Rectory and Ed. Center designated by the number 22 on the GIS map. This was the original area being considered for the columbarium near the Church.

The areas on the GIS designated parcel 22.002 and 23.003 are under the City of Camdenton and the Mid County Fire District Building Code Authority (573-346-2049). When we designate the cemetery area, we need make sure that the area does not include any of parcel 22 or we will need to go through the County Planning and Zoning for the area in parcel 22 and submit a $600 filing fee.


5. Bev went to the city of Camdenton and they verified that all lots are in the city. Camden County said it is too, though the GIS doesn't show it. The County documents are in error according to the City. They say they have notified the County repeatedly.


6. Fr. Dan received a letter from  Bishop Gaydos giving permission to proceed with the cemetery project..  He wants us to be in communication with Brad Copeland on construction progress and Deacon Joe Braddock the Diocesan CFO on finances and contracts. Tom Otto has also Agreed to be on the committee for help with finances.  He will research if there already exist accounting programs for cemeteries. Please start sending info to him.


7. Contacted the Mid County Fire District Building Code Authority (573-346-2049) to see if there would be any issues with St. Anthony building a cemetery.  They said that the city of Camdenton has building code jurisdiction.  If they are concerned about anything, they will notify Mid County.


8. Contacted Brian Connell, the architect in Columbia recommended by Brad Copeland.  He apologized for not contacting us.  We had a very informative discussion about the St. Anthony cemetery project.  Initially, I called about our committee setting up a meeting with him.  I told him that Tuesdays were the best times for the committee members and that it looked like June 6 or a Tuesday in May would work the best for all.  After many questions from Mr. Connell, he thought we needed to set up a meeting with Chris Sander (no s) a Civil Engineer at “A Civil Group” in Columbia.  Mr. Connell and Mr. Sander had already spoke with each other about our project.  Mr. Connell suggested we meet with Mr. Sander so he can learn more about the project and better determine what services he can provide and write up a proposal.  There is no initial cost for this initial meeting.  Depending on what Mr. Sander recommends, we can then figure out how to go about the initial site planning process.  The fees can be fixed or hourly, depending on what is required.  If there is something Mr. Sander can’t do and he thinks Mr. Connell can provide help, they will get together.


9. Contacted Chris Sander, Civil Engineer with A Civil Group, Columbia, Mo.  I briefly told him about our project and that I would send him the link to the web pages that had been put together so he could see where we were in these initial stages.  I told him Bill had a soil mapping team out and we had some of the report on the web.

We talked about a date and time to meet down here.  At the Parish Council meeting, Daryl said that Monday afternoons work best for him now.  Mr. Sander and I  penciled in Monday, June 5th at 3 pm.  I told him that I would check with the committee and see if that will work for all or most of us.  It will likely be hard to find a date and time for everyone.


10. Followup conversation with Dennis Croxton, Building Official, Zoning Inspector, City of Camdenton.  There was an email dated February 27, 2012 from Mr Croxton stating "There is nothing in the "City of Camdenton Municipal Code" that would prohibit St. Anthony's from developing their own cemetery.  The only items that the city would need to be involved in is any grading/excavating in preparing the site and fencing.


Since this was over 5 years ago, the purpose of the call was to verify if this information was still correct.  Mr. Croxton said that it was correct. He asked about the parcels where the cemetery would be located.  The parcels are parts of 22.002 and 23.003.  He said this is considered private property just like a residential area. I ask what was needed regarding “grading/excavating in preparing the site and fencing.”  He said that we would need a land disturbance permit that costs $50 and since the cemetery would be created on more than 1 acre, DNR requires a permit related to water runoff from grading/excavating.  He didn’t know the cost of the DNR permit.  He assumed we would want the cemetery or part of it to be fenced.  That requires a city fence permit.  Any signage would also require a permit.  He said a Civil Engineer would know what permits were needed.  The city would also like a copy of any Civil Engineering plan.

11. Contacted Sharon Fitzwater at Our Saviors Lutheran Church in Camdenton asking about their columbarium.  She was out of town at the time and will call back when she returns to setup a meeting time.  She has a lot of information about how they used Hedges to get it put it, costs, funding, etc.

12. On 6 June, the cemetery committee, Fr. Dan and the Parish Council president, Brian Schuster met with Chris Sander, Civil Engineer with A Civil Group, Columbia, Mo.  After introductions, we had some discussions on our initial thoughts about a cemetery location, Chris's plan on how to go about providing us with a preliminary cemetery layout and how we may proceed from there.  We briefly discussed some specifics such as in-ground burial layouts and the use of local contractors for work that will be needed and estimating costs for the different development phases.  We then walked the area so Chris could could get a good visual of the landscape (terrain and vegetation), areas more suitable for in-ground burial, columbarium, road possibilities, a parking lot, potential design features, and future expansion areas.  Walking around the area provided a great opportunity for dialog on layout possibilities.

13. A question came up on our tour over the cemetery area with Chris Sander about any city regulations on a road and parking lot in our cemetery.  A call was made to  Dennis Croxton, Planning and Zoning, City of Camdenton asking about any city regulations on a road and parking lot in our cemetery.  I had talked to him in the past, so, he was familiar with our project.  He said that since the project was on private property, there was no city regulations on a parking lot or drive.  He made the comment that an asphalt parking lot and drive would help make the project more appealing or a better impression upon entering the area.  He would think we would want lightning and that an engineer would know how best to plan for these and know how to layout lightning according to electrical standards.

He reiterated again that the city (Mr. Croxton) would like a copy of the cemetery plan once we decide on one and there would be the need for a permit for any grading/excavating in preparing the site and fencing.

14. Contacted Ken Nicholson at St. Pats who was looking into a columbarium for their parish.  He had a lot of good information.  and said that there has been quite a bit of interest from the people he has been talking to wanting a columbarium at St. Pats.  He has been in contact with the Kidwell-Garber funeral home in Laurie who has a columbarium.  He said that they put in two 80 niche columbariums.  They initially started with one and the demand led them to expand with another.

Ken said that he has crunched some numbers and thinks the eventual cost will not be that much.  He was figuring $600-$700 per single niche times 80 niches = $48,000-$56,000 return.  The cost of an 80 niche columbarium could run as low as a ball-park $25,000.  He said that Kidwell-Garber told him that one needs to be careful who you buy from.  The china made ones are not near as good as those made in the states.  He thought Kidwell-Garber bought theirs through a Colorado manufacture.  I think Jack Martin was looking at a manufacture in Minnesota and the price of an 80 niche columbarium may have been in the $36,000 to 48,000 range.  Those were really nice looking and may have held more than 80 niches.  Of course, there will be costs for the cement pad, landscaping, design considerations, etc.  Bottom line is there is initial costs, but, you do get a return.  All depends how much to spend on a unit and niche pricing.

15. Contacted Tim Scott at Hedges-Scott and he said they can order columbariums at their cost for churches.  The cost includes installation and not the concrete pad, walkways, etc.  They got the one for Our Saviors Lutheran Church in Camdenton.  They have a 48 niche columbarium, 24 on a side.  Two can be in one niche.  At the time, it costs around $5700.  The cross on top was an additional $300.  He said that the walkways need to be 4-5 ft wide to be wheelchair compliant.  He said prices can get up into the $30-40,000 range for larger units such as 198 niches and more decorative.  He would be glad to check out pricing and options for us when we decide on what we would like.  The manufacture is in either Georgia or Texas depending on what we want.


Property Tours:


1. Bill, Daryl and Sam on Tuesday, 28 March at 10;30 a.m.  


2. Bill, Bev and Sam on Wednesday, 12 April at 11:00 a.m.


3. Sam and Sam Jr. on Friday, 14 April at 1:00 p.m.


4. Sam and Ben Evers on Friday, 28 April at 5:00 p.m.


Tour Notes:


1. The clear area by the water tower would make an ideal parking area with a road entering the area between the rock pile and trees to the north of the power line easement from the rectory drive area.  The area to the east of the cleared area where there are cedars and other trees eastward to the highway easement could be a burial area connecting the larger area to the south of the utility easement around the existing pond and a second potential burial area when expansion is needed farther north.


2. A road and walkway could extend from the clearing (parking?) area southeast across the power line easement between two distant power poles to the initial cemetery area around the pond.  This area is rather flat and would require minimal grading.


3. There is a large number of trees ranging from small and large cedars to small and large oaks.  In addition, there are a number of dead trees and debris from fallen trees and limbs.  The standing trees will need to be marked as to which ones that may be kept and which ones to eliminate.  This will also depend on the cemetery design.  Can the cemetery design work around the trees that we want to save?  The design needs to consideration the tree drip circle that relates to the extent of the tree root extension and any nearby soil disruption that could, over time, kill the tree.


4. My son, Sam Jr., who is an architect, strongly suggest getting a Surveyor/Civil Engineering firm to define the area with contour mapping, tree identification, etc,  This type of detail will be needed later when obtaining cost estimates on any development.  He will be sending me a form that his firm submits to potential surveyor/engineering firms for their bids to do this kind of report.  He is also checking to see what firm was used to do this kind of report at the new Osage Beach elementary school on Nichols Road.  My son's firm designed the Osage Beach school.


5. Ben suggested the following:


a. There needs to be a rather detailed contour map of any project areas to help determine the best use of the specific areas.


b. The entry road needs to be designed in a way to not have the water tower be so visible.  The rocks lining part of the property by the water tower could possibly be used in the property design.


c. Plan the in-ground burial plots in areas with easy access for vehicle traffic.  Need to investigate recommended cemetery layout.


d. Develop cemetery in segments, identify initial area for development, leave as much as possible as is for buffer from nearby highway and to help maintain the natural environment.


e. Perhaps tree removal cost can be worked out by someone doing it in exchange for the trees?


f. Perhaps the area around the large tree near the edge of the mowed grass to the south of the power line easement and east of Fr. Dan's drive could be cleared as an initial work project with a bench and plants to demonstrate what could be done.


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